Tabletop Arcade Dev Diaries #16: Retreating
Hey all! Today I wanted to go over my thoughts on how retreating from combat might function in Tabletop Arcade.
Now initially you may be thinking "well that doesn't sound very important", and you may be right. But stick with me, exploring this topic has unearthed the need for a couple design choices that don't seem to have simple answers.
First of all, retreating doesn't come up very often in mainstream tabletop games. Players typically assume they can win any fight that they're in, and they're usually right. With the help of healing in particular, players usually have the option to sustain themselves for "just one more round" pretty much all the time. I've brought this up before in dev diary #12, but this is kinda something I want to avoid. Consequently, I want retreating from combat to be a legitimate option, and sometimes even the best option. So in summary, retreating is gonna matter in TA.
On top of this, retreating is handled pretty naturally in mainstream RPGs like D&D or Pathfinder that use either a tactical map or the theatre of the mind. You either just keep moving away or roleplay it with skill checks. Specific rules for retreating are generally pretty sparse. Like I said before, retreating isn't really considered as much of an option in these games that frequently. Now of course this approach doesn't really work for TA, since the combat uses a pretty different map setup and speed doesn't really exist by itself.
My initial idea for retreating a while ago was pretty simple. Retreat as an action, if anyone else in combat wants to stop you they take a reaction and there's some kind of opposed roll. When you retreat, other party members can immediately retreat as well. I've since ran into a couple problems with this. For one, I'm probably not going to include reactions as a solid game mechanic within combat, and I was wanting to do the same with opposed rolls.
I turned off the idea of using reactions mostly while writing the abilities draft chapter. Implementing reaction triggers as a way to use abilities just sounded like it'd end up either confusing or unbalanced. Reactions in general also don't feel like they fit the computer game/JRPG theme, but that's a more minor concern in this case. Sure reactions are almost never seen in turn-based computer games, but I think that's more a result of how difficult they would be to implement rather than something key to the genre. As much as I'm trying to capture the genre in tabletop format, I'm definitely willing to lean into any advantages the tabletop format offers.
Avoiding opposed rolls in combat is more for simplicity than anything else. I'd like actions in combat to use the system of defence scores wherever possible, and if all actions can be managed under this one system then that'd be just peachy.
There's a couple of ways around these issues. I could of course just include reactions within the game, and deal with the issues surrounding abilities using some kind of system that allows any ability or action to be used alongside any reaction trigger, like the Ready action in D&D 5e. Another possibility is just giving retreating its own specific ruleset that doesn't extend to the rest of combat. My final idea is for retreating to immediately transition the gameplay from combat to a chase, with it's own ruleset.
Creating these rules sure seems a little tough right now. Ideally, I'd design a system that works both for individual party members fleeing and for the group retreating as a whole, but getting both of these to work in tandem is a bit of a struggle.
Well that's more or less everything I had to say on the topic right now. Sorry this post is a little sub-par, I've recently had some thoughts that might end up changing core aspects of the game pretty significantly. As a result of this, working on new stuff kinda feels like building on sand. The whole situation has made me a little unmotivated to write stuff down to be honest. I'm really committed to this project though, and I also really want to stick to my weekly schedule. I'm worried that if I start skipping weeks I'll end up snowballing, so I kinda rushed this post out a little. Hopefully I'll have a clearer head over the next few days, cause I've been working on a pretty fun draft chapter for next week's post. I hope to see you then!
Now initially you may be thinking "well that doesn't sound very important", and you may be right. But stick with me, exploring this topic has unearthed the need for a couple design choices that don't seem to have simple answers.
First of all, retreating doesn't come up very often in mainstream tabletop games. Players typically assume they can win any fight that they're in, and they're usually right. With the help of healing in particular, players usually have the option to sustain themselves for "just one more round" pretty much all the time. I've brought this up before in dev diary #12, but this is kinda something I want to avoid. Consequently, I want retreating from combat to be a legitimate option, and sometimes even the best option. So in summary, retreating is gonna matter in TA.
On top of this, retreating is handled pretty naturally in mainstream RPGs like D&D or Pathfinder that use either a tactical map or the theatre of the mind. You either just keep moving away or roleplay it with skill checks. Specific rules for retreating are generally pretty sparse. Like I said before, retreating isn't really considered as much of an option in these games that frequently. Now of course this approach doesn't really work for TA, since the combat uses a pretty different map setup and speed doesn't really exist by itself.
My initial idea for retreating a while ago was pretty simple. Retreat as an action, if anyone else in combat wants to stop you they take a reaction and there's some kind of opposed roll. When you retreat, other party members can immediately retreat as well. I've since ran into a couple problems with this. For one, I'm probably not going to include reactions as a solid game mechanic within combat, and I was wanting to do the same with opposed rolls.
I turned off the idea of using reactions mostly while writing the abilities draft chapter. Implementing reaction triggers as a way to use abilities just sounded like it'd end up either confusing or unbalanced. Reactions in general also don't feel like they fit the computer game/JRPG theme, but that's a more minor concern in this case. Sure reactions are almost never seen in turn-based computer games, but I think that's more a result of how difficult they would be to implement rather than something key to the genre. As much as I'm trying to capture the genre in tabletop format, I'm definitely willing to lean into any advantages the tabletop format offers.
Avoiding opposed rolls in combat is more for simplicity than anything else. I'd like actions in combat to use the system of defence scores wherever possible, and if all actions can be managed under this one system then that'd be just peachy.
There's a couple of ways around these issues. I could of course just include reactions within the game, and deal with the issues surrounding abilities using some kind of system that allows any ability or action to be used alongside any reaction trigger, like the Ready action in D&D 5e. Another possibility is just giving retreating its own specific ruleset that doesn't extend to the rest of combat. My final idea is for retreating to immediately transition the gameplay from combat to a chase, with it's own ruleset.
Creating these rules sure seems a little tough right now. Ideally, I'd design a system that works both for individual party members fleeing and for the group retreating as a whole, but getting both of these to work in tandem is a bit of a struggle.
Well that's more or less everything I had to say on the topic right now. Sorry this post is a little sub-par, I've recently had some thoughts that might end up changing core aspects of the game pretty significantly. As a result of this, working on new stuff kinda feels like building on sand. The whole situation has made me a little unmotivated to write stuff down to be honest. I'm really committed to this project though, and I also really want to stick to my weekly schedule. I'm worried that if I start skipping weeks I'll end up snowballing, so I kinda rushed this post out a little. Hopefully I'll have a clearer head over the next few days, cause I've been working on a pretty fun draft chapter for next week's post. I hope to see you then!
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